Modest Proposal discussion went strange
Last Friday at school, we had, so far in my opinion, had one of the most contradicting (well, it’s our first discussion with a satiric writing in 10th grade) and peculiar discussion ever.
And how come I am blogging about a stuff happened last Friday? Because my brain realizes some stuff always at a late tempo. That’s how I always lost participation counts in previous discussions and in MUN conferences.
We had a discussion outside classroom, enjoying the sunny sunshine that would supposedly wake us up and refresh our brains. Well, it was way better to think outside with genuine air rather than in enclosed classroom, surrounded by walls and a roof (and windows). Basically, I felt more ‘free’ outside.
The discussion went pretty straight forward. Jonathan Swift kindly proposed us to eat our children in order to become rich in his The Modest Proposal. And we were supposed to discuss about the satirical imagery and how it reflected. However because of my participation, and with the aid of my writing prompt, the literary discussion steered its way to the Economic discussion.
I will reproduce my writing prompt I had for this discussion:
Questions: What does poverty mean to you? Is money everything? Just because you may not have money are you poor? Or is it that you lack happiness so you’re poor? Is there a solution to poverty? Or is poverty just a cycle that makes it hard for people to escape it?
1) poverty is a state of condition that people are unable to finance themselves to meet the proper standard of living such as purchasing basic supplies and food. That’s it.
2) Money is not everything that matters, but it dictates our actions in various ways. Amount of money I have determines whether I get to eat proper 3700 won lunch with snacks and juices afterwards, or eating a 2000 won tuna sandwich. Amount of money I have decides me whether I can to play with my friends or not (we spend a lot on certain stuff). We get this prestigious education because our parents are richer than many other people in the world. There is an ancient saying in Asia that words can pay back thousand dollars. Content of heart is still the main conscious source of our actions. Righteous people stand strong against the temptation of money.
3) yes, according to the answer in no.1
4) Happiness and amount of money has no direct relationship. Committing oneself into a job with optimistic (happy) values might get that person in promotion though.
5) There are more than one ways. I would:
1. Call upon the government and charity organizations to promote fund raising activities and seek donors that will used in alleviation of poverty
2. Promote awareness of poverty to ordinary people
3. Request the government to increase the budget to be used on education in impoverished area thus granting the youths wider opportunities for jobs
4. ask a nation to seek for international aids and non-governmental organizations in case where a particular country could not afford fundings alone or the situation is severe
5. monitor the money-holders of the region for any case of corruption
6. encourage investment on indigenous and local (especially minor)businesses therefore economy would increase and more jobs would be open
7. educate people with proper spending habits and basic concepts of economics
8. recommend the employers to pay the employees adequate amount of salary or any other form of payment. No more, no less.
9. and secure maintenance in primary industries.6) if resolutions in 5) work properly, people should be able to escape poverty easily.
Whenever a topic like poverty and and worldly issues come out, my MUN instincts I developed over the past two years tickle my brain and make me feel like a delegate or a politician. This was the most concrete and unemotional writing prompt I ever had throughout English 10 (I could expand answer no.5 to at least 4 pages with some research). Nor I was very thoughtful and subtle in the discussions, but was flexible as a guy who would view everything from a high-political position. I wasn’t even supposed to answer questions separately, but answer in a unison paragraph.
Okay so let’s jump into the discussion before I forget about it. First my friends talked about how even a wallet could be poor, but a content of heart could be rich. I never had an idea where the ‘poor’ up there in the question meant mental-poverty. Because the Modest Proposal never ever once talked about being ill-minded or mentally sick. He talked about eating babies because situation was severe like a nonsense. And then there were some sayings like:
“Um, I think Modest Proposal is satire of lower class because it makes no sense and it’s about poverty”
Until then everyone agreed to each other. I thought Modest Proposal was rather a satire of a governing class, for not being able to handle the situation well and only leaving one option for the needy: sacrifice of the children. I thought if I was a guy who was in charge of a town and I read the proposal, I would not necessarily laugh about it.
Well anyways, I jumped in to give an against speech.
“But wouldn’t actually the proposal work? Wouldn’t the disposal of unnecessary children help the economic output because it reduces the amount of consumers for the product being produced?”
then the rebut came soon: “would you eat your children?”
I replied fast. “Yes, if I was that damn poor, I would be realistic”
That’s the situation happening the third world countries. I wonder if cannibals eat their young when they’re hungry but many poor children especially in Africa, South East Asia, and other impoverished regions are sold as a child slave, child soldier, and a child prostitute. How is that so different from eating children?
And later I added: “Almost all nations in the world who went from third world to world powers experienced a bit of nonsense for a decade of two in their histories, such as military dictatorship, Fascism, and Communism. Russia was one of the poorest nations in Europe, but through leadership of Bolsheviks and Stalin’s 5 year plan worked out very well as well as Lenin’s construction of Trans Siberia railroad contributed a lot. Korea was under military dictatorship for about 19 years, and it was then when Korea’s GDP reached over hundred thousand dollars before the IMF crisis in 1997 (don’t remember the exact number). China was under Mao Zedong, and yeah, so to get out of poverty quickly, leader has to decide evil and nonsensical ways such as Communism. I don’t think History and Life are not that different from what Jonathan Swift mentioned in his Modest Proposal.”
After saying this, I was self-amused. Jonathan Swift was a genius writer! Even his Gulliver’s Travel I read last year made thousands of connections to my daily life. How can a 19th century writing be compared to actual events in 20th and 21st centuries? One old cliché says human never change, and history is a repetition and cycle of events. This is one evidence that prove the saying is right.
Now I think of it, I think the eating babies part was not literal at all. Now I comprehend as, “In order to graduate from poverty, one has to make a commitment as serious and challenging as eating one’s own children”. Perhaps it was a fable for adults?
Anyways, because of me, instead of talking about literary skills, satire, and language arts, it became more of a conversation that might happen in a Economy class. Well, talkin’ about poverty, you know.
PostScript: Now we’re reading and discussing Oscar Wilde’s The Importance of Being Earnest, supposedly another satire. Family relations, class segregation and marriage is not my specialty of analyzing quickly. They are so unrelated to my life, and I barely had any research done or have experience with them and my participation points will drop if I prepare with all my might. I just get revved in discussions whenever we talk about materials I covered it on previous MUN conferences. Why can’t we read and talk about sustainability or more worldly stuff than satire of marriage-concepts? I think I’ll get a better grade that way.
Picture from: darkcomedyandsatire
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Well, I Shalt Not Leave Without Commenting, sooo
I think the eating your babies part was most definitely a metaphor….
There’s a definite cycle of poverty in cities, and right now in my English class we’re reading the Freedom Writers Diary, which is a series of diary excerpts from students in Los Angeles, California. Most of the students are poor and have major problems in their lives. Some are in gangs because they need protection just to walk around their house. Their family has no money, so they have to find a way to make some to pay the rent on the house, and the easiest way (which I guess could be an opinion) to make money quickly is to sell drugs. They then drop out of school, because they don’t have the guidance to realize that they can be anything outside of their neighborhood. Their parents are eating them as babies, figuratively, because the parents are poor and desperate, and don’t know how to help their kids.
Poverty can also be seen as intellectually poor. Lack of education often comes along with lack of money because they can’t afford higher education.
And people sometimes say “You poor child” or things along that line. They don’t mean the kid doesn’t have any money, they mean they feel sorry for him/her. Poverty could then be defined as “a sorry state.” It could be a function of anything, anything that makes someone deserve pity.
[…] ACTUALLY saying we should eat babies!” For great insight into a student grasping this, see Andrew’s posting about the […]
HEY!!! Who says that Communism is Evil?!!? Andrew! I thought you were a politician! As a politician that you so claim to be, you should be more open minded and not fall into the same “Capitalism = good, Communism = bad” crap. Well… After reading your blog, my so-called “politician” instincts made me comment. First, I agree with the comment above that the “eating babies” thing is a metaphor. Good getback about the eating the babies when your damn poor. I like it
. The satire in the piece of writing is not only directed towards the noble class but towards the concept of having a social class by the way. The idea of teasing the poor and homeless may be funny, but to be a satire, you have to make a point. Without the point that the writer is trying to deliver, the writing would be classified as a comedy rather than a satiric piece of writing. Plus, if you read the writing, it talks about how the poor do not have a choice but to sell their kids and live a life of labor. Thus this leads to the idea that the poor aren’t to blame. Then is it the nobles that are to blame? Not really, because its just the way it was ever since they were born. They couldn’t really think “outside their box” at the time. They were too busy enjoying their time and pleasing the king. Swift, however, who was educated and was open minded, had the capability of seeing that this was not an issue of which class caused it, but that it was an idea that caused this unfair distribution of the wealthy and the poor. He saw that the poor was living a life of labor and that they were too uneducated to find solutions to the problems that they were facing. He also saw that the nobles were not responsible because they did were too lazy to see what was going on. The idea of buying children and making them do labor was justified by the actions of their parents. Their parents did the same as they did, which, they thought, allowed them to do so also. The idea of social class and certain rights that were given to them were so built into their minds that they were unable to see that they could make changes in their routine-like lives. To them, the rich and the poor, there was no problem to be fixed because it was like that for years.
Wrapping up, the satire is directed towards an idea rather than a certain group of people. Also, Communism was the most ingenious idea of government. It’s just that the concept was defected and is impossible unless the entire world participates in it to help each other. The concept itself is not evil, it is just toooo good to be true, especially in a world like today where people will rather kill each other for a piece of bread rather than sharing it.
@TeAmo
uhh,, notice word Evil and Unncessary are italicized? I italicized them on purpose to show an emphasis. How should I explain… of course I know communism isn’t ‘evil’, duh. But I was rather trying to say that people had to give up their freedom and rights because that is widely done in a marxist state, which is not nice in their view. Sorry if that caused a misunderstanding. :’(
One day I really want to read that book called something like Communist Manifesto. I want to know if, I too, would be a marxist for a moment like mr burell or mr spivey.
I like how we are getting deeper, and understanding in a more profound way in satires. For me, Satires are best types of writings to read but hardest to write one. Modest Proposal picks out problems in the society in a very witty yet subtle way. I call that creativity.
Thanks for such a long comment, didn’t have one of those in such a long time!
Actually thinking that world would could be a better place, if our economic basis was run under marxism and still get freedom of choice, speech , whatever. And here goes the concept of utopia. dang
yup… totally utopian… lol but wouldn’t be too bad… i guess… i mean you get to say all the crap you want, have the government supporting you (more like the entire world supporting you in a REAL communistic world), and have an equal chance of success as everyone else.
Satire for me isn’t the best writing. I think i’ll rather read stuff like fantasy, better yet manga. Reading satiric books for class is a cool thing though, because then you get a much better concept of the time period or an ideal (even though you have to try like 100000 times harder to get an understanding). I understand you idea of how satire is th hardest to write, but, is it really?? I mean, its probably really easy, just hard to understand. If you have basic information that you want to deliver, write it like a normal essay, and just depict images, metaphors, and use extreme sarcasm, BAM! you have ur satiric piece of writing. At least thats what i think…
If i had the determination, time, and some liberty in having the choice of what i want to do, i think i can write a satiric essay about this thing i wrote about on my blog. try checking it out (P.S. leave a comment… my blog has no visitors… T^T).
Oh by the way… don’t read the Communist Manifesto… Its just really really long and… badly written… its like “The Origin of Species” by Charles Darwin… except that its about the ideal communism and Marxism rather than evolution and natural selection… I recommend you to just talk to a marxist and ask why communism is good… Last year I had to research about Marx using that book… nearly killed myself in confusion and boredom… yea… I highly do NOT recommend this… just talk to a marxist or read an book or article that talks about the book and the concept of communism…
@TeAmo
It would be easier to leave a comment on your blog if you linked to it :p
Satire is hard to write. Sarcasm solely for the sake of itself isn’t funny or witty. It has to be smart. That’s hard.
I’ll go *actually read* A Modest Proposal, then comment more..
oh haha sorry
I’ll link my blog… someway… don’t know how to with a Reply Box… lol
Anyone wanna teach me?? Come to my blog: sungwoom10.kiswrites.com and leave a comment
Oh and Hannah thats my blog right there so if you want you can scroll down and its the second one from the top
@teamo that’s probably because you’re already logged in to Kiswrites. try logging out, you can fill out the boxes